Screening “Red Rocket” in Cannes brings back delightful memories for me, as the audience was receptive and praised the film. It’s a gutsy film that doesn’t tread lightly on the topic of porn; we are submerged into the deep end with all the seedy details. Perhaps a few more than we need—yet if not the depth, we’d never truly understand the pride Simon Rex has in his film accomplishments and awards. Shocking as they are to most, in Rex’s mind, he’s a superstar. He fails to realize that to most people, his former life as a porn star comes with hasty judgment and disdain.
Viewing the film again last week in Chapel Hill, NC, during Film Fest 919, gave me a sharper look at the details. Directed by Sean Baker, who also served as a writer alongside Chris Bergoch, they have penned another organic film to add to their repertoire. However, the main character here is loathsome—Mikey Saber (Simon Rex), is a desperate, amoral, repulsive washed-up Los Angeles porn star who returns to his hometown of Texas City—generating chaos, lies, and deception twenty-four-seven.
Baker, and Bergoch staying true to their storytelling of poverty, outcasts, and their living environments in America, have another hit. “The Florida Project” (2017), an outstanding film of homelessness and its effects on families, sheds light on the children of poverty. In “Red Rocket,” Baker shines his spotlight on a starry-eyed 17-year-old Strawberry (Suzanna Son). The latter dreams of leaving her impoverished life in Texas City to become a porn star in LA alongside her much older new boyfriend, Mikey.
Opening to the tune of *NSYNC’s “Bye Bye Bye,” Mikey slithers back to his estranged wife Lexi (Bree Elrod) in need of a shower and a place to crash for the night after he’s been living in LA. Lexi wants nothing to do with him as she’s been down that train wreck road before. Mikey sweet-talks his way back into the house and back into her bed; after all, he’s promised to provide for his wife and her mother. Lexi’s mother warns Mikey that he better be faithful to his promise as she doesn’t want her daughter to advertise on Craig’s List again for meet-ups with strangers for cash. Mikey says that won’t happen and begins to look for a job via his only mode of transportation—a kids bike belonging to Lexi named ‘Red Rocket.’
The performances are engaging and believable under Baker’s direction, which enhances the script—some critics were predicting an award for Simon Rex—an interesting note, Rex has IMDb acting credits in several porn videos early in his career. The second viewing only enhanced my opinion of Rex’s excellent performance; he’s the best I’ve seen to date, as he draws you into his world of deceit.
Chris Bergoch and I first met in 2019 at Film Fest 919, in Chapel Hill, North Carolina, where we were on the Film Fest 919 Advisory Board, and later that year for the Netflix film, “The Irishman,” premiere in Hollywood, CA. Upon our first meeting, I talked about “The Florida Project” as I had centered my Critics Choice Awards article for RogerEbert.com on Brooklynn Prince. It was then that Bergoch told me that “Starlet,” his first film with Baker, was reviewed by Roger Ebert.
Meeting again in Chapel Hill, NC, during Film Fest 919 this past week brought an opportunity to catch up on films and the buzz of Cannes. We chatted in the Spotlight Cinema restaurant area for our interview and before the screening of “Red Rocket.” Bergoch also received the ‘Distinguished Screenwriter Award’ that night.
Sarah Knight Adamson:
Can you explain the genre of your films? (Bergoch has written four films with his writing partner Sean Baker, “Starlet” 2012, “Tangerine” 2015, “The Florida Project” 2017, “Red Rocket” 2021)
Chris Bergoch:
Sean and I have always gravitated toward a mix between drama and comedy, although it’s sometimes hard to gauge how an audience will react.
Sarah Knight Adamson:
How did “Red Rocket” play?
Chris Bergoch:
When we had “Tangerine” debut at Sundance, throughout the festival, people started laughing more and more because they realized that it was okay to laugh I think they were expecting something heavier with this subject matter perhaps. When “Red Rocket” played at Cannes the first screening, I wasn’t hearing a lot of laughter where I thought there would be. Sometimes you think certain lines are going to be funny; sometimes they fall flat, and then things you didn’t think were funny get laughs. I went to three screenings at Cannes, and the same thing happened where there was more laughter. It was a big relief. It’s one of my favorite things to do at these festivals, compare audience reactions from screening to screening. I find it fascinating.
Sarah Knight Adamson:
Can you tell me the beginnings of your film and your screenplay—it’s such a different subject?
Chris Bergoch:
Sean and I did a movie called ‘Starlet’ (2012), and it was our first feature together. We had worked together many years ago on a show called “Greg the Bunny” and then our spin-off on MTV “Warren the Ape.” And then into “Starlet,” we always remembered, there were so many different personas that we encountered during our research period. So we talked to a lot of people in the adult entertainment industry as consultants for the movie “Starlet,” and you meet so many different, interesting personalities. I would say the three of these guys that we talked to all had this quality, all charmers, and they were funny. They were really making Sean, and I laugh. But then they would just say these very insane, left turns about their adventures in the adult business–some dark stuff.
We’d think, should we have been laughing about that? It was kind of horrible, almost reprehensible. And so we kind of started thinking it would be an interesting character study to focus on one of these guys and expand on what we had in Starlet, where we had another character, Mikey, in that film, played by James Ransone. We thought there were further adventures of one of these types of guys who work in the industry. It’s interesting to see what happens when the industry doesn’t want them anymore. It’s kind of a good launching-off point.
Sarah Knight Adamson:
Yes, and to have found Simon Rex!
Chris Bergoch:
Yeah, so Simon Rex, we were very lucky that he could do this film because he really pushed it in ways that we couldn’t even imagine. I mean, he’s so great. When you write a movie like this, it could go sour because you’re writing an unlikeable character, and he’s not doing very likable things, right? The secret is to find someone that could be likably unlikable, and Simon hits that note. If he’s just unlikable, you know the audience isn’t going to care. But in a weird way, as bad as this guy is, you can find sympathy for him. He’s almost naive, and he doesn’t know how self-centered he actually is, perhaps?
Sarah Knight Adamson:
Sort of the antihero, that you do like.
Chris Bergoch:
Yeah. You’re rooting for him in a strange way.
Sarah Knight Adamson:
I do like that antihero, but he’s had such a hard life.
Chris Bergoch:
Simon is the best I’ve ever seen in hitting that frequency. He follows, in the tradition of performances like Danny McBride in “Eastbound & Down” (HBO Series) or Vincent Gallo in “Buffalo ’66” (1998). Those are the kinds characters among others that Sean and I talked about during the writing process and were inspired by.
Sarah Knight Adamson:
I heard that you were very pleased that Roger Ebert reviewed “Starlet,” (2012).
Chris Bergoch:
Yes, it was an honor. It was like a dream growing up, the young-Chris would think to himself “someday I want to make movies, and maybe Siskel and Ebert will review them!” And so, when ‘the’ Roger Ebert reviewed “Starlet,” and it was a positive review, it thought it was just amazing! I would’ve been thrilled even getting a horrible review from him.
Sarah Knight Adamson:
Oh my goodness, that’s fantastic. Congratulations. (Link to Roger Ebert’s Review): https://www.rogerebert.com/reviews/starlet-2012
Chris Bergoch:
That was a huge thrill that remains a career highlight for me, really a dream come true.
Sarah Knight Adamson:
So while I was in Cannes, the buzz was incredible after “Red Rocket” opened, people were talking Simon Rex for best actor, things like that. Best Screenplay for both you and Sean; I mean, it was exciting. I was thrilled to see the movie at Cannes with a French audience.
Chris Bergoch:
We were flabbergasted. I never get a chance to say that word, and I’m going to say it.
Sarah Knight Adamson:
Good word.
Chris Bergoch:
Flabbergasted. We were blown away that we had the standing O, and you never know, like I said, some of the moments weren’t getting those big laughs like I expected. We didn’t know if it was working, you just kind of sit there with a pit in your stomach for two hours, you know?
Sarah Knight Adamson:
Wow. A standing ovation. I can’t even.
Chris Bergoch:
It’s a great thrill when that happens, because it’s just a win just to get a movie like this made made at all, number one, very fortunate. Number two, to get it made during COVID was a miracle. And I would kick myself if I didn’t give a shout out to the “Red Rocket” producers and entire crew and entire cast. All brave heroes. This was the first movie with Sean where I wasn’t on set. I had been very fortunate as a writer to be on set, which is not always the case in this biz, on the previous three, creating and evolving these movies with Sean as we shot them.
But this was more traditional where we wrote the movie, and they went off and made the movie and it all came together fairly quickly. And the fact that the producers, Alex Coco, Samantha Quan, Alex Saks, Sean Baker, and Shih-Ching Tsou, who has a role in the film in the donut shop, they went above and beyond to get this thing done. They were in the trenches during this production, all during COVID. And I kept thinking to myself, how is this going to work there under those conditions? But they did it! They’re a miracle; they’re superheroes. It’s all because of their know-how that this thing exists at all. And also, can I give one other shout-out?
Sarah Knight Adamson:
Oh yeah. Yes.
Chris Bergoch:
Stephonik! Who’s our production designer, she was also production designer on “The Florida Project” among other great musical delights! She’s a miracle worker, she’s a one-woman band. She enhances everything, plusses things in ways you would not expect, as did with our Magic Castle motel in “The Florida Project, “she makes it all come to life in ways that feel organic to the stories. Creative decisions from her and Sean that are very easy not to notice. Unless you see the film a couple of times. Did you know in that mall, there was no fountain? She created the fountain at the mall, what’s a cool mall without a fountain, right? She really is the unsung superhero.
Sarah Knight Adamson:
Very cool, I love production design.
Chris Bergoch:
The effects that no one knows are effects.
Sarah Knight Adamson:
Well, I can’t even. What was it like playing at Cannes?
Chris Bergoch:
It’s like beyond a dream come true. With the “Florida Project” we were in the Directors’ Fortnight section, but to be in main competition this time, I mean, I never thought in a million years that I would ever even go to Cannes as a fan, let alone have a movie I was involved with there. You have to keep pinching yourself, and you just can never believe like, even now, did that happen? Was that a dream? And it’s really cool because these are small films. They’re not Marvel movies. And the exposure that it gives these films is the best part. It might put them on people’s radar that wouldn’t have heard about them.
Sarah Knight Adamson:
Oh my goodness. Well, I remember the ending was a little fuzzy, and we won’t give that away. How do you and Sean decide about those endings for your films?
Chris Bergoch:
Yeah, this one changed a bit, as all things do, and we had a couple of different versions of it. And Sean really likes to give something for the audience to chew on and talk about. It’s kind of fun when it’s a little open-ended—open to interpretation. And we love to do that, there’s no wrong answer, but sometimes people are challenged by that — I want to go back to “Starlet” … we had an ending there, where people were like, “We want to know what happened after the last scene!” I think it’s fun to sort of initiate that post-screening dialogue in audiences.
Sarah Knight Adamson:
Talk to me about Suzanna Son, who plays Strawberry; she’s just adorable. I read about her a little bit. She’s fairly new to film.
Chris Bergoch:
What a brave performance, right? We needed to find someone that was willing to go there. A Sean Baker discovery at the Arclight in Hollywood. She was seeing a movie there. And Sean’s got a knack for gut casting. You know, Valeria Cotto, who played Jancey in “The Florida Project.” She was in Target with her mom in Orlando. And he just approached her very gently like, “Hey, we’re casting kids,” while trying to seem as professional as possible with his Boonee business card!
Chris Bergoch:
Oh, it’s so funny when Valeria’s mom, Ivelisse, recalls meeting Sean on that faithful day back in 2016: “He comes up to us in Target; his business card has his, a dog on it…” Because Sean’s dog Boonee, who’s the title character in Starlet, is on his business card. But thank the heavens that they trusted him and came to one of our casting calls! And, the same with Susie.
Chris Bergoch:
And she’s now she’s nominated for a Gotham breakout performance. (It should be noted that Bergoch and Baker are also nominated for a Gotham for Best Screenplay.)
Sarah Knight Adamson:
I am so excited for her; she stood out as well as Simon, you certainly know how to write them.
Chris Bergoch:
I’d like to mention Lexi, played by Bree Elrod as well. She gives the emotional depth that I always love to try to get into, and there are scenes with her that tug on my heartstrings. And I can’t give it up to her enough because I always want that in there. She really brought it. I was tearing up when I saw it for the first time.
Sarah Knight Adamson:
My reactions to her were about her wide range. And she knows when to hold back.
Sarah Knight Adamson:
Is there anything else you’d like to say about Red Rocket?
Chris Bergoch:
Well more on the wonderful cast, such as Brittney Rodriguez as June, another amazing Sean Baker find! Such a strong presence in the film along with Judy Hill as Leondria, both the nicest people too. Not as intimidating as in the film! I could not imagine a better Lonnie played by Ethan Darbone. Brenda Deiss as Lexi’s mom brings both laughs and emotional depth, which is always the best combination to try to infuse in characters. And Drew Daniels, the cinematographer, really delivers some gorgeous, beautiful imagery here on 16mm. I also would love to say that this film has renewed some people’s interest in “Starlet,” which is wonderful, and for those who have not seen it, it’s a great watch before you jump into this one, as we like to refer to it as a sister film to this one.
Also, I’m just happy that people could see this or any movie on the big screen. And I really love film festivals like this because it brings people out. We were cooped up watching streaming too long. And as much as I love watching and binge-watching shows, it doesn’t replace the magic of seeing movies in a communal experience. And it’s amazing that A24 is putting this movie out in theaters on December 3. I’m excited for people to have a good time experiencing Mikey’s adventure and, hopefully… laughing a little.
Sarah Knight Adamson:
Oh, I can’t wait, that would be three times for me! Thanks so much and best of luck with the film—you know I’ll be rooting for you my friend.
Sarah Knight Adamson© October 16, 2021